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No More Mr. Nice Guy! Make Room for Something Meatier!

April 15, 2010

nice guy's hero the stalkerish Lloyd Dobler.

You know Spring is truly on its way when media outlets pick up every story matching the keyword, “Dating”. The latest being so-called “Nice Guys” seeking assistance in cultivating their inner jerk in order to rid themselves of such despicable qualities as: empathy, respect and appropriateness.

There is nothing new here; same rehash of the nice guys get nothing/jerks get everything false dichotomy. It seeks to frame the issue as a matter of female partners – since nearly all “Nice Guy” articles are written from a heterosexual perspective – finding “Nice Guys” categorically undesirable without any analysis as to why.

Frankly, it’s a bit cheeky to frame the issue in such a way given it is not at all why women tend to shun these men. In fact when closely examined I find there are little differences between so-called nice guys and the jerks they believe are getting all the ladies.

Skim through any dating forum and see folks hashing out this very issue without much in the way of clarity or resolution. For one thing, few can agree what is meant by the term “Nice Guy” and I suspect that’s merely a derailing tactic, rather than legitimate debate.

Look, here’s what is meant by “Nice Guy”:

  • A guy who niceness is used in order to get something from you.
  • A guy who quietly seeks to infuse every atom of his being with yours without directing stating his intentions (when asked)
  • A guy who believes it’s possible to fake care his way into your heart and underpants
  • A guy who is unable to discern subtle cues of disinterest or willingly ignores said cues.
  • A guy who believes he is entitled to a certain level of treatment simply because he’s pick a specific woman as his mark. Often leading him to behave in decidedly “not nice” ways when his advances are decisively rebuffed.

From the above linked article:

Dean Melcher was the kind of guy who befriended girls easier than boys. He was a tad shy, consistently thoughtful and surrounded by women, but he still couldn’t get a girlfriend.
“I think I was kind of clueless and oblivious,” admits Melcher, who spent his early 20s lingering in the friend zone. “Women wanted the bad boys.”
Everyone probably knows a Mr. Nice Guy like Melcher, who is now 46. He’s the guy who patiently listens to a girl complain without interrupting her. Because of his sweet nature, he puts the girl’s demands first, altering his weekend plans to fit her schedule. He may be uneasy about making a decision for fear of being domineering.

So much fail going on here.

Newsflash, Mr. Melcher, you lingered in the friend zone because these women were simply NOT attracted to you. There was nothing short of a gun and rope that was going to motivate these women to date you.

Moreover, I suspect some of those women felt it odd that you did not play well with those on your end of the gender spectrum. That is one of my GLARING red flags for anyone. If you can’t play well with folks in your own sandbox, I view it as a HUGE SCARECROW and I run out of that cornfield ASAP.

Also, nothing here has suggested why you feel you’re in fact – dateable. I mean chow chow about your perceived qualities – all of which are easily framed as manipulative when viewed through the “nice guy” lens – I’m not seeing any approximating “great catch” at all. What I am seeing, however, is a dude who was secretly a jerk all along finally ditching his faux nice guys ways in hopes he can better attract partners who are still NOT GOING TO DATE HIM. I’m seeing a lot of “me” in all of this. Where are the women? Oh yeah, it’s not about them!

Since my name is Snarky’s Machine I’m going to reiterate the “ugly” truths of dating for the dudes in the cheap seats:

  • You get what you get.
  • If at first you don’t succeed, lower your damn standards.
  • You get someone if you’re actually willing to adhere to points 1 and 2.

It would appear in this case, the “Nice Guys” have told themselves lots of fantastic tales using evidence such as the catalog like set up of most dating sites and the fact that lots of schlubs such as themselves have hot girlfriends in Gross Out Comedy films to support their flawed world view. Far too much celluloid has been wasted instructing men that hounding the hell out of a women after she’s repeatedly rebuffed his advances is just one tool in a well stocked dating arsenal.

Want to see a nice guy turn jerk faster than potato salad goes bad at a picnic? Ignore his unsolicited emails on a dating site or tell him directly that you do not find him attractive and he has no hopes of ever securing a date with you by any means except coercion.

When his eyes light up, remind him most forms of coercion are in fact – illegal.

As for why women pretend they don’t notice or give the appearance of actively encouraging the behavior? Well I can’t speak for all women who have their own hell to raise, but I do it because I’m not about to have a motherfucker go all Dressed to Kill on me simply because I do not find him dateable.

It’s just not worth arguing with that strain of stupid.

The premise of the “nice guy” defense is they are entitled to whatever women they are attracted to as long as they have devoted sufficient effort and resources in form of performing “niceness”.

And, honestly, how nice does that sound to you?

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25 Comments leave one →
  1. April 15, 2010 12:56 am

    A lot of dudes that consider themselves nice guys are just really creepy. Like I’m getting grossed out just thinking of some of the “nice guys” I’ve met.

  2. April 15, 2010 1:49 am

    A lot of dudes that consider themselves nice guys are just really creepy. Like I’m getting grossed out just thinking of some of the “nice guys” I’ve met.

    Exactly. I don’t care how “nice” a dude is. If I’m not interested then I’m just not interested and therefore he needs to find somewhere else to be “nice”.

  3. badhedgehog permalink
    April 15, 2010 6:13 am

    Two things about the whole “nice guy” thing.

    Firstly, it seems to me that someone who is deliberately labelling himself a “nice guy” and touting himself as a “nice guy” is probably protesting too much. Actual nice people never seem to say “but I’m nice.”

    Even if protestations of niceness weren’t all passive-aggressive and whingy, what would be a better use of resources – actually being nice, or putting effort into banging on about how nice you are?

  4. April 15, 2010 7:24 am

    There are nice guys out there. And they’re not whining about their inability to get dates — they are partnered. People on dating sites — like the people quoted in dating articles — are full of self-deception or disingenuousness, telling themselves and everyone else they’re nice and tall, or brainy and curvy when what they really mean is passive aggressive and 5’9″ or HS grad and fat.

  5. araymondjohnson permalink
    April 15, 2010 8:27 am

    I’m with Tasha, self-proclaimed Nice Guys usually give me the willies, much like a self-proclaimed “lesbian in a man body” that is a subset of ‘nice guys’. Dude, just cause you like to eat pussy and wear birkenstocks doesn’t make you a lesbian. And I say this as someone who likes to eat pussy, has a few secret pair of comfortable shoes, and I WAS a lesbian at some point. Like the Nice Guy moniker, it usually ends up being a label to cover up whatever fcked up isht you’re going to do or say down the line against women, probably starting with the one you are sleeping with.

  6. April 15, 2010 9:15 am

    Dude, just cause you like to eat pussy and wear birkenstocks doesn’t make you a lesbian.

    doesn’t make you nice either!

  7. April 15, 2010 10:57 am

    I always thought that “nice guy” was a code for a guy who was deemed as less than masculine, who was caring sensitive and thus rejection of a nice guy was a symbol that feminism had lied to the public. That women in fact really wanted an old fashioned man. Or “nice guy” meant a guy with a steady job, who didn’t sleep around (much) and wouldn’t beat you up and rarely curses.

    In short the criteria to being a “nice guy” was never that rigorous so I never got why it would be considered such a great selling point about why you’re such a catch.

  8. April 15, 2010 11:12 am

    Even all of things were true, I don’t believe a dude is deserving of a chick who doesn’t want him just because he can keep a job and not abuse her. I mean good for fucking him. Brush up on your foxtrot and your place settings and then we’re got a real horse race.

  9. April 15, 2010 11:14 am

    There are nice guys out there. And they’re not whining about their inability to get dates — they are partnered. People on dating sites — like the people quoted in dating articles — are full of self-deception or disingenuousness, telling themselves and everyone else they’re nice and tall, or brainy and curvy when what they really mean is passive aggressive and 5′9″ or HS grad and fat.

    And in and of themselves none of those qualities renders a person undateable, the stench of self delusion does.

  10. evmaroon permalink
    April 15, 2010 11:15 am

    doesn’t make you nice either!

    pardon me while I spit my morning coffee all over the 18 inches in front of me.

    I never really understood Hollywood’s idea of romance. If some dude showed up at my wedding all sweaty and out of breath professing his love for my fiancee, I highly doubt she’d crumble and leave me at the altar. We have a word for people like that: stalkers. And there are laws against that shit. In reality land here, as soon as some guy pesters a woman to understand his “love” for her, it’s all over.

  11. April 15, 2010 11:18 am

    Ev, clearly you got that the “trust me. I’ve done the legwork” part was implied.

    If some dude showed up at my wedding all sweaty and out of breath professing his love for my fiancee, I highly doubt she’d crumble and leave me at the altar. We have a word for people like that: stalkers. And there are laws against that shit.

    Seriously!!!

  12. April 15, 2010 12:30 pm

    @badhedgehog I agree, if you’re nice you don’t have to tell people you’re nice.

  13. evmaroon permalink
    April 15, 2010 12:52 pm

    I agree too, except that I say I’m nice in my Twitter bio. Maybe I should go edit that.

  14. April 15, 2010 12:59 pm

    Yes, but you are nice, Ev.

  15. April 15, 2010 1:03 pm

    The Modern Man, a company based in Australia that provides dating advice, suggests a similar anti-nice guy solution: Stop wasting money on expensive dates, and don’t always cater to her needs first.

    That sounds like some wining advice! Be a cheap jerk. Yeah that’ll lift some skirts.

  16. Cassi permalink
    April 15, 2010 6:02 pm

    That sounds like some wining advice! Be a cheap jerk. Yeah that’ll lift some skirts.

    Heh, yeah that’ll work. It will, however, work about as well as the standard ‘nice guy’ advice to “spend a lot on dates and cater to her every whim.” Not because women hate expensive dates or having their whims catered to (personally I often enjoy both of those, sometimes simultaneously even), but because most ‘nice guys’ hear that as “spend money on stuff you assume she wants (don’t bother checking, all chicks are the same) while catering to whims you assume she has (ditto), then expect pussy” Then they’re shocked and pissed when that doesn’t work. I suppose they figure being a cheap jerk is at least less costly than being a spendy jerk.

  17. April 18, 2010 11:13 am

    Obligatory link: xkcd explains the “nice guy” issue in comic form: http://xkcd.com/513/

  18. luckyboy is an assclown permalink
    May 11, 2010 8:45 am

    women are full of lies and deception. in reality all they want is something shiny to show off to there frineds when they are young like a pretty boy.. they say look what i got and their friends swoon.. later they want someone to ay and thats when nice guys are useful. .. women are essentially evil.. they ask but dont do .. they use but dont provide and they lie lie lie and use use use men to their own advancement.

  19. evmaroon permalink
    May 11, 2010 5:14 pm

    This latest comment makes me laugh so hard. And by hard, I mean a lot. Any woman that uses a man to her advancement is okay by me! Not like it doesn’t work the other way a helluva lot more of the time…

  20. May 11, 2010 5:43 pm

    Luckyboy is an assclown is a shoo in for “commenter of the week”.

  21. evmaroon permalink
    May 11, 2010 6:02 pm

    I especially love the randomly generated creature it gave to his comment. Perfection.

  22. May 11, 2010 6:22 pm

    We don’t just use men for our own advancement. We drain your precious bodily fluids!

    “I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love. A profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily, I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence.”

  23. May 11, 2010 7:27 pm

    Precious body fluids!

  24. May 12, 2010 10:05 am

    Hey Luckyboy, I believe a citation is needed.

  25. May 12, 2010 11:56 am

    Pics or it didn’t happen, Lucky Boy.

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